[A magyar verzióért kattints ide!]
The year is around 2004, my mum and I are on vacation in the High Tatras in Slovakia. The rain is heavy, no chance to go on a hike. What else is there to do? Sit on the couch, eat a pork tenderloin sandwich with pickles and watch the television in the middle of the hotel’s corridor. MTV, or perhaps it was Viva TV, is playing Nemo by Nightwish… Little 10-year-old me is just trying to grasp what she is witnessing as she’s never heard anything like it ever before. At home we have no internet, nor any music channels so the song gets forgotten for a while… Until one of my classmates gives me a „mixtape” containing music videos as a birthday gift… Lo and behold, the DVD contains the very same song. By then we have internet, LimeWire for filesharing, and some early-stage social media to socialise with other fans in clubs, groups, and forums… And thus, a beautiful journey begins… Nightwish posters appear on the wall, Vica decides she wants to learn Finnish ASAP, and in 2008 at the ripe age of 14, asks for a Nightwish concert ticket as a Christmas gift.
I was around 17-18 years old when I started doing reports and interviews on shows but already as a young teen, I couldn’t help but write stories and blog about trips and then later, concerts. It seemed like the obvious next step to share my thoughts with others as well. My mum is also a journalist, so I have it in my genes, and I never feel so alive as when I’m in the middle of conducting an interview I’ve prepared for. The major part of this „career” has been done already in the columns of www.metal.hu. This Dream Of Mine has been the same since the very beginning. A final goal, a goal of life, a „final boss” in my journalist career: to interview Tuomas Holopainen of Nightwish. I have been preparing for this moment with ideas, thoughts, and questions for so many years I cannot count.
Since then, I’ve learnt Finnish, my musical taste took a turn into a heavier direction, but The Maestro remained an important character in my life and my love towards Nightwish’s music never faded. And then, in 2022, after a decade of yearning, Concerto Music made my dream come true. Before their Budapest concert (report here) on the 20th of December 2022, I got an opportunity to conduct a face-to-face interview with Tuomas. I am glad this opportunity came now and not earlier – I feel I have matured and grown up to this moment as a person, as a fan, as a journalist. A dream came true, and in what a way! The fact that after the allocated 20 minutes were over, Mr. Holopainen himself asked the management for five more minutes as he was having a nice enough time to do that… Something like this happening is beyond my absolute wildest, most ambitious dreams. What a lucky break that I speak Finnish now and understood the exchange… THIS is why I started doing all of this back then. I hope you all will love reading this interview as much as I loved recording it, and hopefully you will learn something new from it.
Hi Tuomas, how are you with only two shows left on this tour, are you looking forward to going home for Christmas?
We all are excited to go home. It’s been a long tour, but a very satisfying one. We have never had so many people attend the shows. With COVID and postponing the tour three times it was quite the challenge finally being able to do the tour in a way that everybody stays healthy throughout all of it. It’s been absolutely fantastic, it really has. But this close to Christmas…! Our home is already decorated, my wife sent photos, the tree is there – so, yes, I miss home big time.
Did you get to rest? You had a day off to spend in Budapest and I saw some of you checked out the Christmas market. Did you get to rejuvenate a bit?
Yes, I did. I actually stayed in my hotel room and watched two movies and didn’t go anywhere.
Which movies?
Jordan Peele’s new one called Nope, which was really good. And then I watched some really shitty horror movie and then I fell asleep during it. But I’ve done my fair share of Christmas markets on this tour, I always go there because I absolutely love them. Some Glühwein and Christmas carols, it’s lovely.
Are there Christmas/Yule/Winter Solstice traditions that you find important?
Yuletide is my favourite time of the year! I absolutely adore it. We have all the classic traditions, like family gathering, Christmas dinner, exchanging presents, sing some carols, visit the graves, and go to the sauna. I’m not much for traditions myself, but Christmas is maybe the only thing I like and cherish when it comes to traditions.
Is it important to you that the world (well, our hemisphere) starts going back into the light?
I’ve never had any trouble with the long winter or darkness. It’s my favourite time of the year, actually! Many people I know – most of them, actually – suffer from the darkness, my family members as well. But I just don’t mind it! I love the fact that we have four seasons, so you get the best of everything. I couldn’t live in a place with winter all year round or summer all year round, it is good to have the variety.
Do you have a favourite theme park and ride and do you enjoy the wilder rides and rollercoasters?
I absolutely do, I’m a sucker for theme parks! Orlando is by far my favourite – Disney World and Universal Studios, Islands of Adventure. I think I’ve been there 15 times and we’re going to go there next year again. I need my theme park fix every now and then! I even love the kiddie rides, they have that special atmosphere, but also all the hardcore ones. The song Last Ride of the Day was inspired by the rollercoaster Hulk (The Incredible Hulk) in Islands of Adventure, Orlando. It’s a massive rollercoaster. I was able to get in on the very last ride of the day. The Sun had already set, not many people left, everybody was leaving, but they made one more round and I got in there. There was just something really magical about it and that is how the song was born.
You just added “Our Decades In the Sun” to the live setlist – who drove this decision and why this one?
Floor had been doing this song in her solo shows. I can’t remember who suggested it, maybe she said that we should try it with Nightwish as well. I went back to the album version of the song and kind of realized that this is a sort of hidden gem – it is a really good song, well executed, so let’s definitely do it live.
Do you feel that you „have made it” as a band and as a musician, or do you feel there is something else missing to truly be able to declare that?
I feel like that everytime we finish an album. I don’t have any ambitions when it comes to touring or doing live shows. It’s not a dream for me at all to „Play Wembley Stadium one day” or anything like that. All the ambitions and dreams lie in the music itself. I still hope that the best Nightwish album is yet to be made.
Have you ever felt pressure that after all this time, thousands of fans sort of expect you to deliver again and again, and to tour.
No, neither me nor the rest of the band members think about that kind of stuff. When you do music, it’s a very selfish process. You do it only to please yourself and your bandmates. That’s the only way to keep the music honest and authentic. Of course, I would love the fans to get what we mean with our music, that they would get their enjoyment out of it. But no matter what you do, there is always somebody who complains that this is too heavy, or this is too light, or this is not Nightwish, or whatever. You have to keep honest to yourself and do music for yourself, and hope that the people will enjoy it. So, no, I don’t feel pressure.
In an Auri interview you said that in Auri you have complete, unlimited musical freedom. But does that then mean that you don’t have this in Nightwish?
We do in Nightwish as well, there’s just a different dynamic. In Auri it is 3 people and everybody does one third of the music and the lyrics. In Nightwish it’s more focused on my songwriting and lyrics. Just the dynamics are different, but the freedom to do whatever we want is exactly the same in both groups.
Was Marko ever actually any sort of “anchor holding you down” as he claims in a summer festival interview from 2022 or do you think that could’ve been depression speaking?
He has been very open about his mental problems to us. They started to show during the past few years in the band as well. We all saw that he was going through a really hard time. His announcement still came as a major shock for us. I hope he is doing better.
Would you say that negative emotions such as sadness and heartbreak lead to vastly different musical outcomes than a happy content, “boring” life – and I don’t mean that a sad person writes sad songs; but that a happy song would look different.
I think as long as you feel something, it will come out as good art. I just mentioned Last Ride of The Day, it was a hilarious experiment, nothing but positive thoughts, and ended up as this song. But then songs like The Poet and the Pendulum, or Our Decades in The Sun, they spawn from really dark, melancholic thoughts. As long as you feel something… When you feel neutral, nothing comes out.
Would you disagree with an old line from Beauty of the Beast saying „All of my songs can only be composed of the greatest of pains”?
Back in the days… Well, no, I don’t agree with that. But it is just a narrator speaking that in that particular song, so it is all in context.
So just the lyrical I, not you.
Yes, exactly.
In a bit more recent interview you said that picking a best Nightwish song is not possible… Back in the End of Innocence era you said that the Dead Boy’s Poem is your best song. I would assume this has changed since. Are you able to pick “your best song” today, in 2022?
I can’t really, because imagine how that would make the other songs feel.
Oww…
Mhm… (laughs)
I’m mentioning quite a few references back to your old stuff, I hope you don’t mind it…
I don’t mind!
In the End of Innocence documentary you mention that the line “The scent of a woman was not mine” is the only line that really makes you cringe… If we look at the newer era of Nightwish, is there anything that you are not really… fond of anymore?
I don’t think it’s even that anymore. It was still an honest thought, and all the music came from a rightful place… So I’m not really embarrassed or ashamed of anything that we have done. But, yes, if you read through the lyrics of that song or the song Elvenpath, for example, they are pretty hilarious. But nothing to be ashamed of, cause that’s just what we were back then. I love roleplaying games and we play boardgames all the time, I read fantasy all the time, so it is still there. Just during the last two albums, we have been keen on focusing something else – more science and reality, nature-based. But fantasy still lives strong.
The line “A primal need to touch the stars” makes me associate on flying high up, soaring up and just levitating… Do you ever dream about flying? Do you have any repeated recurring dreams? If it is not too personal.
No, it’s not! Flying is a pretty recurring one… or falling. Or trying to run but your feet don’t move – that’s a pretty common one. You want to run from something but can’t – it’s terrible! It’s more like a nightmare. But yeah, a primal need to touch the stars – imagination is what makes humankind humankind. It’s the biggest advantage we have among all the species.
Something closely related to this often comes up in Introduction to Linguistics classes – what differentiates us from animals is that we can lie. And lying is basically a form of imagination…
Yes, it is!
That’s what animals can’t do, but we can.
Exactly, yes!
Some not so nice thing about our human nature… It seems that we forget the past issues really fast… For a while people were panicking to go to shows after the terrorist attack in France; now people already seem to forget thousands dying to a global pandemic and continue to go to work when sick and so on… Do you think there is anything that will actually stick around from the pandemic era, do you think we are able to learn from these? Or is it actually better if we forget this ever happened?
The pandemic was not all negative – it also brought a lot of people together. It brought out the altruistic characteristics of human beings as well. I think it is also a survival method in our DNA that we don’t think about bad stuff all the time. We realise that we have only “a few Decades in the Sun” and we shouldn’t use most of it with worrying or feeling bad about the past or regretting things. Live and learn – is the old cliché – and move on!
Yeah, but did we learn though?
I think it is too early to tell. I was all for the actual lockdown in the beginning, but once we started to realise what was actually going on – this is not Ebola, this is something much more harmless! – I think maybe the world overreacted, at least many parts of it.
Are there any Nightwish songs that changed what they mean for you, over the time?
Not really, because all the songs have a very specific personal meaning to me. We haven’t even talked about the themes of the songs with the other band members, I think there are still some songs… Just the other day we were talking about Ghost Love Score with Floor, and I asked her – do you know what the song is about? And she said “No, I’ve made my own story around it, so I know what I’m singing, but it’s likely not the same thing what you mean by it.” And this is the beauty of art, of music.
Did you “spoil” her understanding with the “original” meaning?
No, no! That is also something we do when we record a new album or rehearse it. I give the lyrics and the vocal melody, and if she wants to ask something then she can. But I just left it up to her to interpret the way she wants…
So what is Ghost Love Score about?
Well, it is something different for everybody, but for me it has a specific meaning that I am not going to reveal of course. (smiles)
About that goofy first version of ‘Music’ with the different genres– any chance we could ever hear it for some laughs?
No! (laughs)
That would be very entertaining though…
Yeah… it is a good story, it’s true, but it just goes to show you that if you have an idea it doesn’t mean that the idea is good.
You must have gotten a million and one questions already concerning Human Nature – do you think there is anything that you would be excited to share but no one got to ask?
Nothing really pops to mind immediately… …On CD2 there is the instrumental version and the second to the last song, Anthropocene, there is an excerpt from an old melody called (Hurrian) Hymn to Nikkal, I don’t know if you noticed that. It’s the oldest known written piece of music that’s found. It is like 1400 BC…
Yes, we did quite the Wikipedia-dive about this when the album came out.
Yeah, we rearranged it and integrated it into that song and you can hear the melody in there (hums the melody)… It fills me with awe to think that 4000 years ago there was a bard in the Mediterranean, composing a song for lyre and then 4000 years later a metal band from Europe covers it. If only he or she knew! It’s a wonderful thought.
Maybe he or she does!
Maybe. We’ll never know!
Nightwish has told the story of humankind’s past – will you have your own take on humankind’s future?
I see it very positively. I’m very optimistic about it. I think everybody should read the book Human Kind by Rutger Bregman, a Dutch author. It was released last year. I will just leave it as that. (leans closer to the dictaphone) Everybody reading this interview go on and read that book.
I will have it highlighted it with bold so it is more noticeable!
Please do it. Human Kind – two separate words.
Can we expect something special when you will be playing in your hometown Kitee next midsummer?
Definitely something, I don’t know what it is, whether we are going to play some weird song, or maybe we will do something with the video screen. But absolutely, it is going to be such a once in a lifetime experience, especially for me and Emppu, since we originate from Kitee!
For sure, see you there!
Oh, you’re gonna be there?
Of course!
Alright!
I’m trying to attend these special events, I was in Oulu at the Nevski&Prospects gig, and at the Pirita Monastery ruins.
Oh, that was fantastic, the monastery, what a surrounding!
Did you actually have a small accident there or something? At the beginning of Noise there was a weird situation as if you had burned yourself or something?
I got electrocuted, yeah… it happens every now and then. There is so much technology on stage and everything, and sometimes you just… (imitates getting hurt)
Just from touching the keyboard?!
Yeah. I think it is related to the CO2 effect that we have. So, when those come, you got to be really careful.
Due to the Auri lyrics mentioning the Foxen lamp I can assume you also read The Slow Regard of Silent Things…
Oh, yes!
What do you think about that book? Not the basic Kingkiller Chronicle, but this one alone.
Oh, I absolutely love it! I’ve read it three times now!
It is such a hard read for me!
It is hard, I know! I just love the atmosphere of it. it’s so weird! But Auri is such a character that I just like spending time with her in her little world. Troy tried to read it and couldn’t go past the first 50 pages, said it’s too hard.
Have you talked to Patrick Rothfuss?
We exchanged a few emails.
So he knows about the album and all?
I’ve sent him all the albums and he sent me “thank you” back.
So do you know anything about when the 3rd part is coming? (Note: part 1, The Name Of The Wind came out in 2007 and part 2, The Wise Man’s Fear in 2011. Apart from a released Introduction one-pager, there is still no information about the finishing part of the fantasy trilogy)
No, I haven’t dared to ask! So many people are asking, so no…
Not only the song Noise but already The Greatest Show on Earth kind of seems to have a negative view of humans… But you seem to be so positive about all of this… The things we see on the slideshow after the animals, they are basically all about the destruction of the natural habitat, it’s all very negative – am I feeling these negative emotions correctly?
No, I don’t think… That thing is going on and we should never look away from it. But the vast majority of the stuff humankind has done is positive. We just keep on focusing on the negative – that is also a product of evolution: if we are overly scared of everything, we might survive a bit longer… I think it is time for everybody to wake up and see the world is actually a better place decade by decade. I could list a million reasons why. I also blame the media, because they always focus on the bad stuff. But think about medical care, how long people live, women’s rights, animal rights, LGBT rights… Go back a hundred years, how far we have come! Education, overall poverty in the world reduced, there are just so many examples!
What’s a theme that you have never explored in music before that you would like to explore in the future?
We’ve tried so much that nothing pops into mind immediately.
Finland seems to be a great place for nature-related hobbies, do you have the time and capacity to do any of these still? The good old bird watching?
I love the outdoors, that is my favourite hobby. I go walking, Nordic walking, kayaking, hiking as much as I can.
What was your biggest less-than-realistic wish as a child and your biggest aspiration as a teenager?
All my life I wanted to be a scientist until I was 18, but that was not unrealistic, it is just something that didn’t happen.
Yeah, hence my wording.
Yeah! There wasn’t anything unrealistic.
In an interview you said that you still try to follow science – do you mean more like popular scientific articles or academic papers straight from journals?
No, more like popular stuff. I always read the monthly Science magazine… Neil deGrasse Tyson, Dawkins, and some Finnish scientists as well. I just try to keep myself educated on what’s going on in the world.
I see, thank you. And to wrap it up: Does pineapple belong on pizza?
Ah! (laughs) Ehm.. On a personal level, yes, but I couldn’t care less if people hate it. I mean, there is no one answer to that question. I never liked to make rules – you can’t do this or that!
Thank you very much!
Cheers! It was a lovely chat, nice meeting you!
By: Éva (Vica) Katona
An enormous thank you goes out to Gábor Kosinszky and Concerto Music.
